Word: rwanda
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...TIME: You have an ambivalence towards the international community. Kagame: Look at the past few decades. Rwanda was always among those countries that was praised for one thing or another. Even when there was nothing to praise Rwanda for, really. Under [former hardline Hutu President Juvenal] Habyarimana's government, people were talking about how Rwanda is peaceful, Rwanda is stable. But our people were just living on hand-outs. Now, the question comes for our donors and partners: having spent so much money, what difference did it make? In the last 50 years, you've spent $400 billion...
...Rwanda has been poor throughout its history. Since independence, instead of getting better, it has got worse. Our per capita income is below $300 [per year]. Sometimes closer to $200. We need to challenge one another, we need to challenge ourselves. How can the developed world, the donor community, talk about funding different projects in Africa, yet after so many years, you do not find much that has been done? For me the answer is that there were mistakes on both sides. The Africans have not been able to take full ownership and responsibility for [work done in our countries...
...rights groups, are pretty critical. They talk about the arrest of your political rivals, they say you use the genocide as an excuse, they say that's also used as a reason to jail reporters. What is your response to that? And why is there such a split on Rwanda, between those that love the government for its progressive attitudes and those who accuse it of repression? Kagame: There are critics. But I don't think they are being fair. The same people who may be behind some of these criticisms are the people who have historically been associated with...
...some of the things they criticize Rwanda for are not well explained. They talk about arrests. Well, there are going to be arrests. Based on the law. We have put laws and a constitution in place. We have had to fight things like corruption. We have had to fight things like sectarianism. Genocide was built on divisive politics. So what do people want...
...TIME: Is there a sense in which, if you're trying to avoid a genocide, then there has to be some sacrifices in freedom? For instance, not allowing people to incite ethnic hatred. Is Rwanda free, or free within limits right now? Kagame: I think there is a lot of freedom, and with time, it is only increasing. But if people expected us to start from 100%, and I don't know where that exists anyway, even in the countries that come to give us lessons. But for us, first of all we have to create institutions, laws, we have...